6:51 PM Here’s the scene getting setup for tonight:
6:51 PM
8:05 PM Early reports suggest that they are going to address economic issues, despite this debate being slated to cover foreign policy and national security
9:00 PM Crazy! Will be a big night for liveblogging
9:00 PM Woot Katie!
9:01 PM Pundits think foreign policy is going to play to McCains strengths
9:02 PM Introduction to the debate: primarily national security and foreign policy. Divided into 9min segments
9:03 PM Audience being asked to stay silent tonight: no cheers, no applause
9:03 PM McCain and Obama shake hands
9:04 PM Question: Eiesenhower”We must achieve both security and solvency…foundation of miliary strength is economic strength” At this moment tonight, where do you stand on financial recovery plan?
9:04 PM Obama: “Mainstreet” has been suffering already. Put forward series of proposals to protect tax-payers. Need oversight, possibility of getting it back/gains, none of that $ going to CEOs, helping homeowners. This is a “final verdict on 8 years” of Bush’s policies; hasn’t worked. Fundamentals of economy = middleclass
9:06 PM McCain: Sen. Kennedy in the hospital: “our thoughts go out”. Feeling better tonight: Dems and Reps working together on this crisis, thinking about “mainstreet”. Has to be a package with other elements to it. This isn’t the beginning of the end of this crisis, this is the end of the beginning. We have a lot of work to do.
9:07 PM
9:08 PM
9:08 PM Q: How do you stand on the recovery plan? “We have 5 mins. We can negotiate a deal right now”
9:09 PM Nice: I like how he ( the moderator) re-asked the question.
9:09 PM Obama: We haven’t seen the language yet. How did we get in this situation in the first place? 2 years ago he warned “we could potentially have a problem”. Yes, we have to solve this problem shortterms. Have to look at how “we shredded so many regulations”.
9:10 PM
9:10 PM McCain: Going to vote for the plan. Also warned about Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac, etc. Eisenhower reference. Lost accountability
9:11 PM McCain is talking about WWII cause he was there.
9:11 PM
9:11 PM Obama: We need responsibility, but not just when there’s a crisis. As we solve this shortterm problem, need to look at longterm issues. Disagrees that “fundamentals of the economy” are sound.
9:11 PM
9:12 PM
9:12 PM LOL: McCain made a hearing joke
9:13 PM Q: Do you agree, McCanin? McCain: “No doubt that we have a long way to go”, more consolidation of regulatory agencies. American workers are most productive.
9:13 PM McCain: We need to fix the system: To bad it was the republicans that put them there.
9:14 PM
9:14 PM Question: Are there fundamental differences between your approach and Obama’s approach to lead country out of this crisis?
9:14 PM McCain: Spending is out of control. “We came to Washington to change Washington, and Washington changed us”. Will veto all spending bills that would come across his desk. Burns Obama for porkbarrel spending.
9:16 PM McCain: Spent 3 Million to study the bears DNA
9:16 PM Obama: McCain right that earmarks process has been abused. McCain proposing $300B for corporate tax cuts. All earmarks are just $18M. “We need to grow the economy from the bottom up”. Has proposed tax cut to 95 %of Americans. McCain wants to follow policies of Pres. Bush.
9:16 PM
9:17 PM Obama: McCain wants 300 Billion is tax cuts
9:17 PM Obama: Wants to cut taxes to 90% of all Americans.
9:18 PM
9:18 PM McCain: Maybe porkbarrel is not a lot of money to Obama, but completely out of control. It’s a system that “has to be cleaned up”
9:19 PM Obama: Don’t know where McCain is getting those figures. No one is denying that $18M is important, but eliminating earmarks alone is “not a recipe to getting the middleclass back on track”
9:20 PM Obama: I closed corporate loop holes, Healthcare has basic coverage
9:20 PM McCain: US paying highest business taxes in the world; drives away business. Wants to cut that business tax…so businesses will stay in American. Porkbarrel spending at lot more than $18M
9:21 PM McCain: I want to keep businesses here in America.
9:22 PM McMain is stuck on the 900M in Pork Barrel spending.
9:22 PM Obama: To American ppl = 95 %of you will get a tax cut. Business loopholes make businesses pay one of lowest tax cuts in the world. McCain will tax health credits.
9:23 PM Obama: Making over 250,000 you won’t see a raise in taxes.
9:24 PM McCain: “Another case of walking the walk and talking the talk”. Reference energy bill: he fought against it, Obama voted for it. Obama has “shifted on a number of occasions”
9:25 PM Obama: Look, “that’s just not true”. Can’t give into oil companies. Can’t give them to the oil companies
9:26 PM McCain: You already gave them to the oil companies
9:26 PM McCain keeps saying check the record. The republicans keep talking about less government but put the US in more debt.
9:26 PM Obama: You’re opposed because it would strip away benefits to oil companies.
9:26 PM Question: As President, what are you going to have to give up, in terms of priorities, to pay for financial rescue plan?
9:27 PM Obama: Hard to anticipate budget next year. “we can’t do everything that needs to be done. ….(need to do) things that have to be done”: healthcare system, oil reliance, American families, competing in education, rebuild our infrastructure. Eliminate programs that don’t work
9:27 PM
9:28 PM Obama: Need to invest in Science, College for everyone, broadband lines, no grid.
9:29 PM McCain: Need to cut spending. Need to examine everything in gov’t. Reduce defence spending e.g. “Literal Combat Ship”. Need fixed-cost contracts. Defence spending vital but need to get cost overruns under control. “I know how to do this”, been involved in doing this for many years.
9:30 PM McCain has one plan….Cut spending. The republicans keep saying it but put the US in more debt.
9:30 PM
9:31 PM Moderator: Neither one of you want major changes as result of bailout?
9:31 PM As of September 2008, the total U.S. federal debt was approximately $9.7 trillion
9:32 PM Obama: Need to change the culture of medicare. I’m not widely liberal, just oppose Bushs’ policies. Has worked to produce “google of spending”
9:32 PM Moderator: Financial crisis = how is this going to affect you?
9:33 PM McCain: Should consider a spending freeze except for vetrans
9:33 PM Obama: Freeze = using a hachet instead of a scalple
9:34 PM McCain: $700B a year overseas to countries that don’t like us very much (oil). Create jobs and energy using nuclear power. Obama opposes reusing spent nuclear fuel.
9:34 PM
9:34 PM McCain: big on nuclear power.
9:35 PM Moderator: Will financial crisis have major effect on your presidency?
9:35 PM Obama: No doubt it will affect our budgets. If we’re lucky and get it back, but in shortterm, we may not see that money for a while. Will have to make tough decisions. Have to know what our values are to make those decisions. If spending $ on tax cuts, we have made a bad decision.
9:36 PM
9:36 PM McCain: Don’t want to “hand over healthcare to the federal government”. Can adjust spending. Healthy economy = best recipe to recovery. Fought against wasteful spending his whole career.
9:37 PM Why not hand over healthcare. It works in other countries including Canada.
9:38 PM Obama: Your president presided over this “orgy of spending”. You voted for his budgets. Hasn’t happened over past 8 years.
9:38 PM
9:39 PM McCain: Well known he “hasn’t been elected Miss Congeniality”. “Mavrick” of the senate, has a good “maverick” partner now
9:39 PM McCain is trying to distance himself from other republicans.
9:39 PM Question: Lessons of Iraq?
9:39 PM McCain: Can’t have a failed strategy. 2003: “we have to change this strategy”. “This strategy has succeeded. We are winning in Iraq. We will come home with victory and honor”. “We will see a stable ally in the area”. “We are winning in Iraq and we will come home…not in defeat”
9:41 PM As of August 2008, around $550 billion has been spent based on estimates of current expenditure rates, which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $2 billion per week to $12 billion a month, an estimate by economist Joseph Stiglitz.
9:41 PM Obama: Should not have gone into war in the 1st place. Haven’t finished the job in Afghanistan. “I thought it was going to be distraction”. “Wish I had been wrong and they had been right (about Iraq)”. Cost so much and Al Qieda is “resurgent”. Now we are borrowing $ from overseas. Lesson: never hesitate to use military…but have to do it wisely.
9:41 PM According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published in October 2007, the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of 9/27/2008 1:41:18 AM.4 trillion dollars by 2017 when counting the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with borrowed money. The CBO estimated that of the 9/27/2008 1:41:18 AM.4 trillion long-term price tag for the war, about ,Timezone:-4.9 trillion of that would be spent on Iraq.
9:43 PM McCain: Next President will have to decide how/when we leave Iraq
9:43 PM Obama: They (Iraq) has a surplus of 79 Billion
9:44 PM
9:45 PM Long-term health care costs A recent study indicated that the long term health care costs for wounded Iraq war veterans could range from $250 billion to $650 billion
9:45 PM Obama: Violence has been reduced in Iraq. Troops have done an amazing job. But that was a “tactic” of the failed strategy of the war before that. John wants to think war started in 2007.
9:45 PM McCain: Obama doesn’t understand difference between a tactic and a strategy. Story about when he went to Iraq. Troops told him “let us win…we don’t want our kids coming back here…Obama doesn’t want to let us win?”
9:46 PM McCain stories are so contrived.
9:46 PM McCain: “we are winning in Iraq”
9:46 PM Obama: That is not true (the story McCain told).
9:47 PM McCain is carrying on the story, Obama trying to cut him off
9:48 PM Obama: difference between them was not funding troops, but he wanted to fund troops with a timeline. In rush to go into Iraq, McCain said Afghanistan was already dealt with. Need more troops for Afghanistan.
9:48 PM
9:48 PM Remember this Guy? Republican!
9:49 PM
9:50 PM McCain: General Pertraus: fragile successes. Setting a timeline would hurt that, and that’s what Obama has trying to do. If we “snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory”, would have more work to do.
9:50 PM Question: More troops to Afghanistan?
9:50 PM Afghanistan….
9:50 PM Obama: Yes, as quickly as possible. Been saying that for a year. Can’t separate Afgh. from Iraq. Would send 4 bridgades from Iraq to Afgh. 4X more troops in Iraq = strategic mistake because Al Quaeda is biggest threat to US. Have to press Afgh govt “to make certain they are working for their people”. need to deal with poppy trade. Need to deal with Pakistan because they are providing safe havens to Al Qu.
9:51 PM
9:52 PM The War in Afghanistan, which began on October 7, 2001 as the U.S. military operation Operation Enduring Freedom, was launched by the United States with the United Kingdom in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. It was the beginning of the War on Terror. The stated purpose of the invasion was to capture Osama bin Laden, destroy al-Qaeda, and remove the Taliban regime which had provided support and safe harbor to al-Qaeda.
9:53 PM McCain: Story about Afghanistan vs. Russia: can’t ignore lessons of history. Not prepared to cut off aid to Pakistan, need to get support of ppl of Pakistan. New Pakistan govt has his hands full. “I’ve been (there). I can see how tough that terrain is”. Obama doesn’t understand that we need a new strategy in those areas of Afghanistan. Going to be tough, but we need to get cooperation of ppl in those areas. Knows how to work with Pakistan and would not state he would attack them.
9:55 PM It would be nice if McCain can pronounce Taliban.
9:55 PM Obama: If US has Al Quaeda + Bin Laden in our sites, and Pakistan is unwilling to act, we should “take them out”. McCain has sung songs about bombing Iran!
9:56 PM
9:56 PM I g2g for 5 mins. Carry on without me
9:56 PM When will the monkey knife fight start?
9:57 PM Obama: They [taliban] are more powerful than ever before.
9:59 PM McCain: I admire Reagan. I voted against Lebanon. I voted for the first Iraq war. I have a record of being able to send troops in.
10:00 PM Some story from McCain about some mom bla bla bla
10:00 PM Just because you are in a war does not mean you should be there.
10:01 PM Obama: I have a bracelet too. Please make sure no other mothers go through what I have loosing my son. We are still seeing the terroists sending out tapes
10:02 PM McCain: I went to Afghanistan. Big deal.
10:03 PM Moderator: You are both even on time.
10:03 PM Moderator: Threat from Iran
10:03 PM McCain: Nuclear weapons = threat to Israel. Need to form a “league of democracies” = group of countries with common ideals. Iran has a “lousy govt”. We can affect Iranian behaviour. Iranians putting most leathal IEDs into Iraq, training. This is “a serious threat…to the security in the world”
10:03 PM Is this all about Foreign Policy?
10:04 PM Yah, and national defence
10:04 PM Wow…second holicost from McCain.
10:05 PM McCain: League of Democracies. Sound like the super friends.
10:06 PM Obama: I believe the Republican Guard of Iran is a terrorist organization. War in Iraq = has strengthened Iran. Has funded Hammas. Our policy for past 8 years has not worked. McCain is right, we can’t tolerate a nuclear Iran. Might set off armsrace in the middle east. Need tougher sanctions, with help from Russia, others. Need to engage in tough deplomicy in Iran. McCain doesn’t want to talk.
10:08 PM Iran insists that nuclear power is necessary for a booming population and rapidly-industrializing nation. It points to the fact that Iran’s population has more than doubled in 20 years, the country regularly imports gasoline and electricity, and that burning fossil fuel in large amounts severely harms Iran’s environment. Additionally, Iran wishes to diversify its sources of energy. Iran’s oil reserves are currently estimated at 133 billion barrels (2.11×1010 m3), at a current pumping rate of 1.5-1.8 billion barrels per year.
10:08 PM McCain: Obama has said he would sit down with Pres. of Iran without preconditions. Would legitimize person who wants to exterminate state of Israel! Thoroughout history….”I will sit down with anybody…but not without preconditions”.
10:08 PM
10:09 PM I like how Obama contantly says “When I am President”
10:10 PM Obama: “I reserve right as Pres. of US, at the time and place of my choosing” if it will benefit US. Preconditions means we won’t talk to them before they meet out demands. Should try to talk;If it doesn’t work, we have strengthened our ability to make alliances
10:10 PM
10:11 PM Obama: Meet without pre-conditions. Says one of McCain’s advisors has the same opinion.
10:12 PM Obama: North Korea is a great example of how not to handle this situation.
10:13 PM McCain: “Not going to set White House visitor schedule before I’m Pres. of US”. Always encouraged lower-level diplomats to talk to Iran. If President sits with those people (Pres. of Iran) you ligitimize that regime that wants to destroy Israel. North Koreans = can’t talk to them.
10:14 PM
10:14 PM Though this was a fun fact.
10:15 PM Obama: McCain suggesting President would meet without doing his research: “preparation”. Meeting without preconditions just means that we dont sit down expecting all conditions to be met.
10:15 PM McCain: Going on about how Iran wants to whip Israel off the map.
10:16 PM Obama: Our entire Russian approach needs to be reevaluated. Their actions in Georgia “were unacceptable”. “You cannot be a 21st century superpower” and act like a 20th century barbarian. Georgia, etc. = free to join NATO if they meet the conditions. Can’t enter Cold War posture with Russia; loose nukes could fall to Al Quaeda.
10:17 PM The 2008 Georgia – Russia crisis began on March 6, 2008 when Russia announced that it would no longer participate in the Commonwealth of Independent States economic sanctions imposed on Abkhazia in 1996. The crisis has been linked to the push for Georgia to receive a NATO Membership Action Plan and the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo. Tensions in the crisis have been primarily centered around the breakaway state of Abkhazia and increased following the shootdown of a Georgian UAV drone airplane and subsequent buildup of military forces by Russia.
10:19 PM McCain: Obama’s reaction to George: “both sides should show restraint” = naive. Not going back to Cold War. But need to support friends. Conflict was about a pipeline. Will support inclusion of Georgia, Ukraine into NATO. Story about being in Georgian territory. Want to work with the Russians, but expect them to behave as a country that respects international borders.
10:19 PM
10:20 PM Russia – Alaska. Very, very close.
10:20 PM wtf is that map?
10:20 PM They are very concerned that Russia is close to Alaska. NFK
10:21 PM McCain: Watch Ukraine.
10:22 PM Obama: We agree on this issues for the most part. Immediately said that Russia-Georgia was “illegal, objectionable”. Sending $ to help them rebuild. Russia: have to have foresight to anticipate these issues. Should have had international peacekeepers. Issue of energy: Russia resurgent because of petro dollars. US has to have energy strategy to deal with Russia + rogue states. We only have 3% of world oil supplies, we use 25%. we can’t “drill ourselves out of the problem”. Strategy to move to alternative energy including nuclear.
10:24 PM How did they get on energy?
10:25 PM McCain: Obama says he’s for nuclear, but he’s against using spent fuel for energy. Dismisses offshore energy as stop-gap measure.
10:25 PM Obama: Have never said he objects to nuclear waste, but has to store is safely.
10:26 PM Question: Likelyhood of another 9/11 attack?
10:26 PM McCain: We have a “safer nation” but not completely safe. Were opposed by Bush admininstration to investigate 9/11 failures. When 9/11 widows applied pressure to Washington, we got things going. Against torture. Work more closely with allies. America is safer today than it was “in” 9/11. Men/women in security agencies doing a great job, can do a better job.
10:28 PM
10:28 PM Obama: “We are safer in some ways”…”still have a long way to go” in securing our transit, ports. biggest threat to US: terrorist getting nukes. Need missile defense. Al Aqueda in 60 countries = need more cooporation with allies. The way we are perceived in the world, helps . Less respected now in the world. We have a lot of work to restore sense that US is “shining beacon on a hill”
10:30 PM I can’t believe huge questions like Healthcare or the environment were just sub headers in foreign policy.
10:31 PM McCain: Obama said missile defense had to be proven. Obama doesn’t understand that if we fail in Iraq, will be used as a base for Al Quaeda. Iraq = central issue of our time.
10:31 PM @MDM: Those come in the debates in the coming weeks
10:31 PM Winner…loser…boring. No real fire
10:32 PM @ Jon: How many more are there?
10:32 PM Obama: No doubt, over last 8 years, Bush + McCain have been solely focussed on Iraq. Bin Laden still out there. Al Quaeda resurgent. “We have weakened our capacity…because we’re viewing (all these conflicts) through a certain lense”. We have put all chips in. No one is talking about losing this war. Next President has to have sense of all this issues.
10:32 PM @MDM: 2 more
10:34 PM
10:34 PM McCain: Been involved in these issues for so many years. Believes Obama just doesn’t have the experience. Failure to acknowledge that he was wrong about The Surge. Loves the vetrans, “I’ll take care of them”. Has background, knowledge to keep this country secure. “I don’t think I need any on-the-job training”
10:34 PM Obama: Nice summary on the war and the need to be more than just a leader of troops.
10:36 PM Obama: Father came from Kenya, wrote letters to go to college in US. In 70s, values of US inspired the world. Can’t say the same thing today. Next Prez needs to send a message to the world: invest in education, invest in ordinary people
10:36 PM God, you [McCain] are is 5 or six wars and that all that’s on your mind.
10:37 PM I knew he would bring up being in prison.
10:37 PM McCain: When got out of prison, saw veterans being badly treated. Know how to deal with enemies and friends.
10:37 PM That’s the end.
10:37 PM John McCain’s capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.
10:38 PM Senators shake on it then go to hug their wives.
10:38 PM
10:38 PM Wives shake hands. HOT!
10:38 PM McCain doing his stupid shrug thing.
10:38 PM Big applause from crowd. Cheer with Obama waved on his way off the stage.
10:39 PM
10:39 PM
10:41 PM
10:43 PM
10:43 PM Obama wins by a show of hands.
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